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Author Topic: Brexit thoughts?  (Read 726 times)

Styyna

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Brexit thoughts?
« on: June 25, 2016, 02:27:21 PM »
Milla, you are the first person to come to mind when thinking about the outcome of the recent vote. But most of us have been deluged with news about the exit vote, much of it filled with wild speculation.

What, if any, effect will the UK exit from the EU have on each of you reading this?

Our investments are affected at least in the short term. I've heard and read that many expect the US markets to return to more recent levels perhaps as soon as in a week.

I'm not at all certain what the economic outlook for the UK is and would be interested to hear what others think or have read.
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To be kind to all, to like many and love a few, to be needed and wanted by those we love, is certainly the nearest we can come to happiness. - Mary Stuart

milla

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2016, 04:21:48 PM »
Oh dear…we certainly live in interesting times… I voted ‘Remain’, like most Londoners. London voted heavily to remain in the EU; but it was a different picture in the rest of the country. At the moment we are all very confused. I wonder if the triumvirate that concocted this situation are also getting nervous, with the pound falling so sharply and the politicians in Brussels getting nasty and urging the UK to get out as soon as possible. Boris Johnson, who was Mayor of London, is very ambitious and he has had his eye on the Prime Minister’s job for quite a while; he knew that he did not have a chance unless there was a major upheaval, so he threw himself in this campaign with a view to bring the house down and be elected Prime Minister. As for the other two… I wish I could give you an unbiased view, but I must make it plain that I cannot stand them, especially the Ukip man who is blatantly racist. He appeals to a section of the white, un-educated working class, who basks in their ignorance and crow their ignorance to the four corners of the Earth.
 I did not vote for the UK to enter the EU, as I came to London in the late 70s. I think I would have voted against it. Like many people, I believe that the UK would have been better off with the Commonwealth rather than Europe. But after 40 odd years in the EU, leaving is going to be tough. We all agree that the EU is crying out for reform; but shouldn’t we be part of the reform process?
 We have a tough time ahead of us. Some people are calling for a second referendum. It is getting ridiculous. We live in a democracy. Like it or lump it, we have to accept the result of the referendum and just get on with it.

anne

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2016, 05:26:16 AM »
Just my limited view: It will mean customs payable for items ordered from UK to me. Also standing in long passport control queues when travelling there. Sigh.

I must say I laughed out aloud when I read about Bregret today. One guy said he did not realize his (leave) vote would matter. Another, that her (leave) vote was meant as a protest vote only. There are some people there who will get a practical lesson on how democracy works.

Also, British people asking if this will have an effect to their travelling, or retiring, to European countries. GREAT BIG SIGH.

I only have the one vote in any election and make sure I know how to use it so I will be happy about my decision afterwards, researching and reading about the choices and the candidates.

I think the "Leave" people just used xenophobia and racism to market their option. I do know it has been a problem with immigrants coming in from Eastern Europe countries. There will be so many other effects though, too! I also hear one promise was false anyway, that NHS (National Health System) would get 100 million pounds more funds weekly if Brexit happened.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html

Well, Britain will survive, of course. It always has, always will. I am sad about Britain leaving our European Union "family" though.

Still cannot believe there are almost three million voters demanding a repeat referendum, some of them those who voted "Leave". Cannot see that happening any time soon!
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anne

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2016, 05:31:50 AM »
p.s. when we voted about joining EU, I just wrote "Do not have enough information on the effects to vote" on the ballot. That was my protest vote. There was lots of lobbying for and against and very little real information on what would happen afterwards.
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milla

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2016, 07:04:24 AM »
Anne, there was a big turn-out for the referendum (72%) because a lot of people who normally are too apathetic to vote in any election, just turned out ‘en masse’, as they thought they could make a change. These people are mainly white, largely uneducated and unemployed. Nigel Farage’s rhetoric fuelled their misplaced hatred of anything ‘foreign’. Places like Cornwall, where fishermen have suffered because of the EU’s fishing quotas, also voted to leave. It is easy to understand their plight. But I (and many others) still think that we would be better off in the EU.
There is a feeling that we will get through this because ‘we always do’, as you said; but at what price? I don’t think it will be the likes of Boris Johnson and Michael Gove who will bear the brunt, but ordinary people who have worked hard all their lives. Pensions and savings will be affected. ‘They’ are already talking about a private health system; the NHS, which is something we are all so proud about, the principle of free health care on point of delivery, could become a thing of the past.
It has been said that immigration puts a strain on our resources; but immigrants do work and pay taxes too. The hospitals cannot run without immigrants, I can tell you that for a fact. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I was cared for by Pakistanis, Italians, Greeks, Chinese, Irish, Africans, you name it. My surgeon, who was absolutely brilliant, is second generation Pakistani.
I also think people show a great deal of arrogance when they say that we will come up on top as always. Other European capitals will be vying for London’s financial position. I look at our great big skyscrapers in Canary Wharf, and a poem comes to my mind, Shelley’s sonnet ‘Ozymandias’!
There is no doubt that Scotland will go for a second referendum and this time they will vote for independence. Northern Ireland will follow; instead of Great Britain it will be Little Britain: narrow-minded and xenophobic.
David Cameron resigned; I am not a supporter but I must say he showed great dignity. If Boris Johnson is elected we should brace ourselves for industrial action, because he will have very little support in London.
Some people have been calling for a referendum to make London independent from the UK…whatever next?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/more-than-half-a-million-sign-petition-demanding-referendum-reru/



milla

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2016, 07:46:25 AM »
Here is the opinion of someone who voted to leave. I agree with some of his points but not all.
‘The working classes have been betrayed, to be poor is now a sin’
The bosses love foreign workers. They are non-union, cheap and pliable. The British people who used to do those jobs have not gone on to university, they have gone on the dole or worse. There is also an issue over the conditions that the foreign workers have to endure, and the housing situation in the UK is abysmal.
Elite media types and people like Bob Geldof have failed to understand the concerns of normal people. They look down on us and call us racist, but they are the ones guilty of bigotry.
Britain became a socialist country after the second world war through the sacrifices of ordinary people. A welfare state was their reward. Now to be poor is a sin and you are attacked from every direction, so there was an element of a “stuff you” protest vote.
The EU sacrificed cohesion for expansion that seems to be run by Germany. Angela Merkel decided to allow 1 million migrants into Germany, breaking EU law and not consulting the Bundestag. Germany broke Greece and is offering expedited negotiations to allow Turkey into the EU. They do not consult and it is not a union.
Britain seemed stuck on the fringe of the EU and our path to greater assimilation wasn’t clear. There is no plan for creating a Europe with the same taxes and minimum wage, so the movement of people adversely affects those countries with better conditions. The EU is monolithic and so hard to understand. Where is it going? It failed to make itself clear, simple and accountable. It just rumbles on.
The EU has had a negative impact on the countries that surround it, with the Ukraine feeling part of another sphere of influence and migrants from Africa dying in the Mediterranean due to failures of planning. I was pro-EU, feeling that Europeans had a better standard of living than us, but became disillusioned as it expanded to include countries like Romania. I can’t see how being in a union with failed states benefits us.
During the referendum campaign I was shocked by how much the establishment failed to provide balanced views. Reports were churned out that predicted the worst case scenarios of Brexit but not the best. I am happy, but concerned, that if Scotland gets a referendum to leave the UK then England and Wales will be stuck in Tory hell for a century. I believe Scotland is its own country and maybe should become independent. They may be worse off financially, but freedom is worth a lot.
I hope that the Labour party unites under a strong leader like Alan Johnson and re-engages with its traditional support base. Labour needs leaders from the same streets that its supporters come from. Actually I think we need proportional representation so we can focus on issues rather than party politics.
Taken from:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/meet-10-britons-who-voted-to-leave-the-eu?CMP=share_btn_fb#_=_





anne

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2016, 04:19:34 PM »
I wonder if Britain will be able to eat its cake and save it, concerning the European Union? Or, as we in Finland say, to be able just to pick the raisins out of pulla. Pulla = sweet baked goods, typical to Scandinavia. I guess raisins have been expensive at some point in our history. They always put raisins and cardamom into pulla, especially pullapitko (disctionary says "long bun loaf" but actually it is plaited / braided, like here: http://www.kotikokki.net/reseptit/nayta/182204/Pullapitko/). I do not care for cardamom in pulla especially.

Ok. Slightly off-topic!  :D

I think Britain is so huge and important that I guess it will be able to negotiate good treaties for itself.

I really have to share a joke here: "The British people are probably googling "What is Iceland" like mad right now. They should have looked it up beforehands, in this case, too. <3 Brexit". This refers to football (Iceland won Britain today! How odd is that?) + the fact Google said the British were googling "What is EU" like mad the morning AFTER the referendum. Hope this did not offend you Milla!! I certainly do not mean to.

We are living in interesting times!
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milla

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 02:57:30 AM »
 Anne, I am British by choice, Portuguese by birth and a Londoner above all else. As a Brit I have very thick skin and I am not easily  offended; as a Portuguese, I know other nations too well to take offence, and a as Londoner… well, I think I have got a sense of humour and I don’t take myself too seriously. People googling ‘EU’ the morning after the referendum seems a bit far-fetched, though. I have now spoken to a number of people in all walks of life, from the highly educated to the ones who left school without qualifications and the general consensus is: ‘we voted for something that was called The Common Market. It then grew into something completely different.’ It did; and the ruin of countries like Portugal, Greece, Spain and Italy shows better than anything else the extent of all the wheeling-dealing that went/goes on.
I voted ‘remain’ after a great deal of thinking because I decided in the end that it was better to be part of the changing process that must take place if we are to have a united Europe. But it was not an easy decision.
As for the football results, I think people remember Iceland ( that grumpy volcano), and I for one enjoy seeing a small but brave side win! Good luck to them. And now that the English manager has done the honourable thing and resigned, I wish that the leader of the Labour Party would do the same; he certainly did not help the ‘Remain’ campaign and if he carries on God knows what will be left of the Party.
As for the UK always managing to have his cake and eat it… I am not so sure, this is too complicated...
My view, which I share with a large number of people here,  is that the whole ‘separation’ process should not be done in haste. Who knows, perhaps it will raise questions and offer solutions that will benefit the other countries in the EU. 

anne

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 03:21:41 AM »
Milla, I know you did your decision after finding out the facts and thinking hard.

I am convinced the separation will happen gradually and after lots of thought. I wonder if there is the possibility EU does not want to let you go and will offer some special benefits or conditions to Britain?

I know the immigration is a big issue in many countries. Finland has received its share of Syrian, Iranian etc immigrants, mostly young men without their families, recently. Lots of people voted for the party opposing this in the last parlamentary election. I understans immigration was one of the big issues in Britain, too?

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milla

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 05:10:48 AM »
Indeed it was, and the Ukip (UK Independence Party) led by Nigel Farage, did everything they could to fuel people’s resentment of immigration. This is why I am so angry with the Labour leader, whose campaign was totally lacklustre and failed to reach the white working class. Immigration is not a black and white issue (forgive me the unintentional pun). Again, this shows the failings of the EU. By letting in countries that where hardly ready to join, they allowed large numbers of unskilled workers to come to the UK.  Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy are seeing an exodus of skilled, young professionals, (doctors, nurses, dentists…). When they come to the UK they come to stay and they are ready to work and contribute to the economy. Other countries, like Romania, send us large numbers of people who have no skills. Training them costs money and takes time. There is no doubt that this puts a strain on the services. Unskilled workers tend to take any work available and accept the lowest wages. This, in turn, affect the pay and conditions of lowest paid British workers.
I have got to stop here; there is a live debate on TV, Mr Farage is making a spectacle of himself in Brussels. It is painful to watch….it  is sooooooo  embarrassing….. :-[

As I was saying. Wouldn’t it have been  better to help these countries by investing in them, promoting the development of their industries, offering scholarships to promising young students, instead of allowing them to join the EU before they were ready?
The refugee crisis is a humanitarian issue and the West a duty to help them. I might be naïve,  but the only way to deal with the refugee crisis effectively is to stop the war, which raises the question: Who is selling weapons to the Daesh? Wars are not fought with water pistols. Someone is making a lot of money out of these people’s misery.
Styyna, you have been very quiet... penny (or a Euro) for your thoughts?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 05:29:50 AM by milla »

Styyna

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2016, 01:52:51 PM »
Sorry to have gone so silent. We are in the thick of preparing to move and I've been beset by severe anxiety that is paralyzing at times. On top of that I had to take our kitty in and say my final farewell to him yesterday. I'll return to this topic as soon as my mind lets me take control again as I'm very interested in it.
  • Complexion: NW10; slight rosacea; dry
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To be kind to all, to like many and love a few, to be needed and wanted by those we love, is certainly the nearest we can come to happiness. - Mary Stuart

milla

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Re: Brexit thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2016, 09:03:56 AM »
Hope everything goes well with the move! I have been away, too; our computer 'died' on us but we managed to resurrect it  :wink: